Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Authentic Heart Podcast. I'm Amber Westerman, your host, and today's guest is my friend Jenna Brooks. She is a therapist. It's a re what what is it? Your certification? Yeah, certified restorative therapist. Restorative therapist. And yeah, I've been Jenna and I go way back to high school days and we haven't really connected much since then, maybe once or twice. Yeah. Gosh, what like almost 15 years ago. I know, it's really sad.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

It's so crazy. It gets further and further, like closer to 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

That's crazy. But we're we're Instagram friends, and I've been watching her therapy journey online, and I just feel really inspired by your work. And I really love all the things that I see you sharing and posting. And so I've been really excited to bring you on today. I appreciate it. Yeah, chat on the podcast. Um, so every episode I like to start off with an affirmation drawing from my card deck.

A Prompt That Gets Real

SPEAKER_01 1:11

This is a card deck that I made of like affirmations that have helped me on my journey and still do. I saw that you did this. Yeah, so cool. It's been a big part of my life in helping my me just like rewire my mind, you know. For sure, absolutely. Um and so yeah, give it a shuffle and do a drawing for us. I love this. Do you do so? You do this every time? Every episode, yeah. Just a nice way to like kick it off.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I know, have fun. Yeah. Do you read it or do I read it?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

You do the top one. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Um, what challenge have I overcome recently and what did it teach me?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Oh, so there's one that so there's some journal prompts in here, too. I forgot to mention that. You're actually the first person that's drawing. You're like, oh wait, twist, surprise. Okay, we're gonna get deep.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

If you want to share and get get a little deep. Sure, let's just see if I was gonna get hilarious. What gift or lesson might?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It's like all these are prompts. Sounds like we're gonna go deep today. I guess so.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

I think this is a sign. I'm like, oh my god, I feel like I'm always overcoming challenges.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I feel that. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Um, okay, let me actually do you answer this too. I I can, yeah, absolutely. I'm like, why not? Let's do this. Um, okay, so what challenge I have I overcome recently, and what did it teach me? Let's see. I feel like I have always have challenges. Slash, I guess we all do. And it's more of like how we want to actually look at that in our life. And I kind of I kind of love it because it always make like I think ultimately it gets me, huh? With your theme, like authentic, right? Yeah, it gets me closer, I think, and closer and closer to my truest, like most authentic self, right? And so I'm like, it's hard because it's like, my gosh, there's so many areas, like it could be even the tiniest things, but I would say probably recent, the most recent is just like really really realizing how much I pour out to other people. And I can even get to the point of being a little like self-sacrificial and like nervous to express my needs and what's important for me. And because a lot of times I've just been used to like, I'll just figure it out myself, right? You know, and so I think I've really been trying to challenge myself a little bit more of actually sharing those things and then and sitting and questioning myself a little bit of like, okay, yes, you can do this, like yes, you could be sat self self-sacrificial in this moment, but you know, is there a is there an element in which you're like abandoning yourself a little bit here, you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Which is in the end not actually serving the other person either.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Right. Right. Exactly. Because I'm like, is there this is this is this a part where I'm like threatened that if I don't do this thing, then it threatens a connection, or I'm gonna be perceived a certain way, or do I not want to be a burden? Like there can be just something, there's a little fear that can also be behind it. So yeah, I think my biggest thing recently has just been like trying to focus a little bit more on even like practicing saying no on certain things that maybe like easily I I would have just done freely, you know. I'm trying to consider myself a little bit more than I have before.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

I love that, and I totally relate. I'm the same, I'm the same way. I'm such a people pleaser, and it's so hard for me to say no, yeah, so much. Um, but it feels so good whenever you do.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yes, for sure. And it's like, I mean, sometimes it is because like there's like the mix, right? Of where there's the people pleasing because you're like maybe wanting a certain response, but also I think like there is a part of me that wants to also just make someone happy. Like I enjoy like I'm like, no, I can totally do that. No, I'll be there for you with this, or no, I can do XYZ, and then I but then I feel depleted, right? Or you know, and then it's like and and it is an interesting balance because I never would want to swing so hard on the other direction where it's like you don't do things that make you a little uncomfortable or like push yourself a little bit sometimes because I can see some people getting a little hyper on the boundaries part if they were like a former people pleaser, and then they're always like kind of making it all about themselves, right? So it's like that nice little balance to kind of figure out, you know, and some areas I think more than others, but right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So probably my biggest challenge. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I totally relate.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

I love that I got the prompt, girl. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

That's hilarious. I know, it's so fitting. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

So fitting. I know. All right, what challenge have I overcome recently and what did it teach me? Well, I'll say a little one that's that's been big, and it's been like a little one that's repetitively come up for me in my life in the last several years since like the age of the internet has gotten so crazy, is waking up and like feeling like I want to go straight to a screen to work. Ah, yeah. And I kind of I like last uh winter I got in the habit of letting go of that and like I deleted my socials for a while unless and I only would go on to them on my computer for work if I needed, and um then I kind of slowly got back into that and like just getting back into doing work things on the computer first thing in the morning, just because I feel like I have like a to-do list that I'm constantly wanting to get done, and it's just never getting done, you know. Yes. But recently I feel like in the last couple weeks, I've been like, I I keep my phone plugged in in our guest room so that it's like away from me and I don't walk past it going to the kitchen in the morning. Good. And uh, and I mean that's been a habit for a while, but that that helps me for sure not reach to it or my computer, and then going outside and just like sitting on my couch in the morning first thing with a warm drink. Yes. And I feel like that's a challenge that I've overcome in the last couple weeks. It's just really nourishing to go and like have some me time with nature.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

So, what have you noticed? I'm just curious from that. What have you noticed as a difference by switching up a little bit of the routine? Like, how does that actually feel for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Um, I feel like it helps my nervous system throughout the day. Yeah. Just be a little bit more grounded and helps my eyes too, because the big issue that I have is with screens, because I do so much computer work. You wouldn't think as a musician, but it's part of today's world. And with the podcast editing and stuff. But the screens are really bad for my eyes, and they get really dry and bloodshot and they hurt, and it's like debilitating where I have to like lay on the couch with a hot pad on them and rest them and stuff. And so not going to the screens first thing in the morning really helps my eyes just like even adjust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's yeah, it just helps my day be a lot more peaceful in many ways.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

That's so good. Because I feel like that's such an important thing, is like they are subtle shifts, you know, like even just recognizing to be like a lot more calm in the day, but it's so significant, even those subtle things, right? You know, so that's awesome. I love that. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I know stand these screens.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I know. I wish I wish there was a way that we could like pursue our careers without them. I know. And I'm doing more and more to try to get it. Like, I'm I've been working on getting uh somewhat of like a personal assistant to help me with some of the admin things so that I don't have to be, you know, like I feel like there's ways like that that you can implement, you like invest in yourself to have less of it.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yes, but it's still but it's kind of like the times now, like we have to accept it in certain ways, but that's why you want to modify as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, okay, well, let's see, let's get started.

High School Survival And Trauma

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Yes. So being all that you've like gone through as becoming like a therapist, I want to talk a lot about like your therapy work and journey because being the authentic heart podcast, it's everything I am so passionate about like healing within my own self. Yeah. And then also being the type of people pleaser that I am. I really love to help others as well. And that's a big part of this. And I don't think that's fully just a people-pleasing uh tendency, it's more of just like it helps me feel like I'm living on purpose. Yeah, and I really love that. I love that too. So um I'm just curious with like knowing you from high school, I mean, I don't really remember like any therapy talk back then, but um I'm just I you know, I was a totally different person too. Completely not self-aware. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, but it's just fun to like think back and like if you could think back to the high school version of Jenna. Yes. What do you understand about her now that you didn't then?

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Oh man, I feel so bad for that girl. Well, because that was probably the most traumatic years was high school, actually. And crazy enough, like I remember so much in my life. Like, I have memories up to like one year old, but high school, I don't remember a lot of like a lot, like people will be like, you remember this? And I'm like, no. My husband's that way too. It's so bad. I'm like, I guess it was really bad during high school. Um, but I think like, oh man, I was just oh I I was going through like significant things like with my family that felt very much like me disconnected a little bit from like everyone around me, like I didn't feel like people would really understand. And I felt very much in survival, and I was definitely depressed, but didn't know that. I I I mean, as you know, which I kind of think is so fun that you know me from high school, but um obviously I was like escaping a lot, like partying, drinking, all the things, and there's also not much to do on a small round.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

I know that's well you can't do that even here on the Walmart parking lot.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

I know, Walmart, Chicken Express, football game, partying at somebody's house or a ranch. Right. Um, but I was doing that so much, and I just like was not doing well in school. I just like wanted to be with friends, and it was this mix of like I knew I wasn't happy in some ways, and I wanted more, but I had no idea how to actually get there. Like I didn't understand like how to I guess feel better, you know. So when I think of that teen, me, I think I was really fighting for my life in a lot of ways. And I think a lot of that really started setting in. I think actually it was my senior year, is when I started really like wanting to shift some things in my world, and I could tell I was unhappy and I was like trying to pursue, and it it just happened to go down the like road of like faith and like religion, which has on its own been a journey for me. But that's like where it was starting to like head towards at that point because I was just trying to look for something that was gonna bring some relief and help me understand, which yeah, translating over into like therapy world. Now that I extra like know stuff, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just came from such trauma. It's pretty typical to like with certain type of abuse that I experienced, it doesn't allow you to have this full sense of self. And so a lot of times you are fine trying to find that through something external. A lot of people end up going into like religion, right? A little bit more specific, like with that, or an identity in something, right? You know, right. So kind of how it started, and it's just been this like evolution, yeah, really, ever since.

Seeds That Led To Therapy

SPEAKER_01 13:30

But is that like what got you into pursuing therapy? Was just that journey.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

You know, I did start seeing a therapist when I was like 19, and he just felt like I would be a good counselor, is like what he would say. And I remember thinking, that sounds horrible. I don't want to be that. And like I know people would come to me like throughout my whole life, like for advice and stuff, and like just felt like I was really good at listening and like a warm presence or whatever, and I didn't really take that as like needing to be a therapist. But so the seeds were started getting planted early, yeah. But I think as I like really, I mean, went to I I yeah, at 19 I started my own therapy. I have not really stopped. I think that's like really what started it, and I felt like the next thing was like college, and so I was like, well, I don't really care about any of these other subjects. Psychology, I like psychology, so I went for psycho, you know, like it's all these like steps that ended up just kind of leading there. Um but I would say like what really kind of made me find the passion for it is I kind of stepped into therapy first. Like I went decided to go get my master's in marriage and family therapy because I was like, well, I didn't really know what to do with my life. I was like, if I already have these natural skill sets and like I appreciate therapy, maybe that's where I'll start. So I started school, but simultaneously I I actually was married at the time and I started to realize I had a lot more trauma than I was aware of.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Like through that oh my god, yes, it will. It was crazy. I didn't know you were married. Oh my god, that's a whole wild story I'm gonna have to tell you. It's a wild story.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Um, but the beautiful thing about that is seeing how much trauma I had. Like, I'm I'm don't regret it because of that. Um, that's what transformed my life. So there's a lot of therapy that I appreciated because I think it planted seeds. I think it met me where I was at. But what transformed me was like this trauma work that I did with this one therapist. Funny enough, she actually texted me today, like, check again, like, because I haven't seen her in a while. She's like, How are you doing? But that changed me completely. And then I really, really, really saw what can happen, like with therapy, you know, yeah, having the right fit, having the right therapist, and also someone who understands like what I was personally seeking. Right. I needed some specifics, and she knew how to do all that. And um, I mean, I'm not I'm not even close to the same person, so that fueled a lot of passion for me because I was like, this is what I would want to bring for people. Because I I like I'm not trying to bash on any therapy. I think that like sometimes it's good to just go in and hash things out or like come up with plans and da-da-da. But I was looking for I needed transformational.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, yeah. I I really love that because I personally do sometimes like to bash therapy. No, I get it. Because I and it's it's I should. I mean, I don't know if I should or shouldn't, but it's uh I just I haven't had a ton of therapy myself, but from what I've heard from friends who have had a ton of therapy, and from my one experience with a therapist, which was horrible, I'm like so uh I'm so cautious with the idea of it. But like there, I know that there's therapists out there that I would connect with. Like I know I connect with the things that you talk about. I have a couple other friends too, and I've worked with a friend who is very similar to a therapist, and she has like helped me transform in many ways to do this. Yes, yeah. But I was actually gonna ask you that like what restorative therapist it like how different it is from other therapy practices, and like if through your journey with getting therapy yourself, have you had any therapists that were like not a fit for you? And how did you know?

Spotting A Bad Therapist Fit

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, like five questions. You're like, wait, just tell me all the things. Um, no, I definitely have to say I think it is I think it is good to go in with caution. To be honest, it's like the same thing, like even with a doctor. You don't just want to trust all the doctors. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, like some aren't even actually willing to go look at the root or anything, and they're just gonna prescribe something or they're not really listening to you. It's the same concept over in therapy world. Honestly, even when I was going through my masters, I was like, oh no. Yeah. Some of like some of my fellow classmates, I'm concerned that y'all are gonna be therapists out in the world. And I am like, so I think at the end of the day, it's just remembering like we're all human, right? And it's imperfect. And so, yes, you do want to be a little bit cautious, I think, not in like this big fearful way, but like in a wisdom way, you know. Um, I've definitely had counselors not be the fit. I personally do not want to just sit and feel like I have to fill the space the whole time, like as the client, I don't want to sit there and feel like I'm literally just yapping. Right. I need your feedback. I'm looking for feedback. And I know in school a lot of times, and this is this is kind of the messed up stuff. This is this is okay. I feel like about to be a whole tangent, but um I'm here for it. Okay, good, okay. Um, so they definitely teach these big basics that I feel like are outdated. It's very traditional. It's a lot of the mmm, uh-huh. Yeah, how does that make you fresh? And I'm just like, oh, and I did not like that. So when I had um therapists do that with me, I'm like, okay, but nothing's changing, and I'm literally coming for you or to you to help things change. Like, I don't know, help me see my blind spots. I'm not aware of this stuff. Give me language for things. Um, so, anyways, definitely have a problem with that. It's definitely things not fully learned in school. And you have to go.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

I know it's so crazy. I think that's so crazy.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

So much about schools, and that's why I get like it like kills me a little inside because I'm like, if people really knew what to search for for therapy and all that kind of stuff, they could have some really great freaking experiences, but it does take some looking because of takes work. Yeah, because like I don't blame some of these therapists. Like, I wouldn't have known unless I did so much of my own deep diving, and thankfully finding a therapist, I didn't realize how deep it could go. Yeah, you know, so I'm like, I'm not trying to like also bash them, and I think that they can sometimes be like sometimes that reminds me of more seed planting or yeah, planting the seeds. But yeah, you wanna if you're ready for something, like you already have a a level of self-awareness and you're looking for the more, then yeah, you're gonna want to like be very intentional. Yes. And so I've come to find like usually if like say somebody who's listening is kind of on that path, like a lot of times I tell them to like look for definitely have the phone consultation first to just get a vibe and ask some questions, but like see if they're aware of like trauma, how do they approach trauma? Are they even aware of like addiction type stuff, um, complex PTSD? Just kind of asking some of these things because I've noticed that people who have a little more skill set in that area tend to think of like some bigger picture type stuff. And then again, then with that, you just like also want to see if it's like a personality fit, right? Um, so it's a little trial and error. Um, but people can also, like anybody listening can feel free to reach out to me. Like if they're looking for somebody and they like need help even. I I love doing that. Like, if I'm not a fit for somebody, that's fine. I would love to help guide them because I want transformation for them too. Right. Um, something that you were also saying, I think, of like the certified restorative therapist.

What Restorative Therapy Means

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah. I'm glad you bring this up. I bring this up with my clients at the beginning. So I have my master's in marriage and family therapy, and I was going to be a licensed marriage and family therapist. But right at licensure, I decided to pivot because I didn't like how restrictive it was at the time. Like I couldn't have had my own practice for a little while. You have to pay for supervision for like another two and a half years, and you're not fully licensed, you're like a licensed assistant. Associate and you have to get like 2,500 hours. I can't even remember how many hours, but it's about two and a half-ish years worth. And with the supervision and paying for that supervision and not being able to fully have your practice. And there was so much restriction. And I get it. Like I think, especially if you're working with certain types of clients, like suicide, actively, sincerely suicidal clients, or people with maybe, maybe major like disorders of some kind, like a personality disorder, dunno, things like that. I I think you need to have a lot more parameters. But for me and what I was going for, I didn't like that. That didn't feel right for me. Um felt like it was too restrictive. I wanted to be able to see people outside of Texas. Right. So I apparently there is this certification that I found out about through my old therapist. And he it's technically a faith-based one, but it is recognized in the state of Texas as like it's a legitimate therapist. So I have that title, but I have a big boundary actually in my therapy. I don't talk about faith unless they want to bring up faith themselves. Like to me, that's your own walk, and I don't want to touch it at all. Like, don't put me into that because that's your own, that's your own experience that I want you to figure out. And I don't people are already coming in vulnerable. Right. And I my words do have influence. Yeah. And I just don't want to have influence in that particular area because I do think that that's an area that gets spoken in a little too much, that it can really mess up a person for a while. It's a very personal journey, yeah. Deeply, deeply. So that's technically what I'm under and what I operate under. And it does allow me, like, I have clients, I have a client in the UK, I have clients in Alaska, like I get to have people all over the place, which is really, really cool. I love that. And I always tell them this at the very beginning of session, and I'm like, hey, if you are actively are actively suicidal, or any of this needs to be for court purposes, please go see someone licensed. But this is and then I'll tell them like my approach, how I work, and da da da. And if that aligns with them, that feels good for them, then we come up with a whole plan. Yeah. But but yes, kind of circling back, you kind of do need a data therapist a little bit to figure out a fit. And kind of like I was saying, people are coming in like pretty darn vulnerable and really looking for help. And so, yeah, it makes sense of why you want to be a picky choosy. Right, right. I I definitely, I definitely am.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yeah, yeah. So you so whenever you work with clients as a therapist, obviously you said you're not the type of one that's like lets the client like take up the space the whole time. Is it like you're you're helping with like feedback and just like like tools and techniques to help them through?

Getting To The Root Together

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Yeah, um, a lot of what I love, like my favorite thing to do is I even tell them clients, like I'm a very much get to the root person. Yeah. And I was like, but let's we're collaborating here. I'm very much get to the root, so I'm gonna call some things out. Sometimes I'll not even know exactly, but I'm just picking up on something and I'll present it to them, you know, and like you you give me feedback. We're working on this together, we're exploring and discovering at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Um, so yeah, I I feel like we kind of go into these phases where I like at the very beginning, I love to get a really thorough history, and that's even like going to like grandparents because I'm trying to pick up well, first of all, our brain is quite literally developed off of all of our experiences, right? And as kids, we only have access to the emotional part of our brain, so our reality, everything that became like our beliefs of like who we are, our identity, how we operate in the world, our purpose, da-da-da. That was based off the feeling reality as a kid, and our prefrontal cortex, our logic and reason isn't done developing till 25-26. So I'm trying to really also hear like what was contributing to what basically kind of made your computer system. Right. So we'll do like a really deep, thorough history. Uh and I also do it because when clients talk to me about it, they start recognizing patterns when they just like streamline. We're like, we'll talk about dad and that dad's upbringing, mom, mom's uh mom's upbringing, or whoever major caregivers were, and then they start being like, Oh my gosh, I wonder if I have this because my dad had, you know, like they'll start to connect little dots, which I love. And then another purpose to that is like I also want them to, I really, really try to communicate that I'm not trying to demonize or villainize parents, but humanize them. Yeah, and so that it's kind of remembering that we're just all very imperfect with our own so important, yeah, and our own mess. And I'm not here to try to bash or anything, but I want to talk about impact. Right. And so that's kind of like the foundation we set. So it's a lot of discovery. I I'm going over needs that weren't necessarily met as kids, how that could impact them as an adult, how that could impact their relationships today, all that kind of stuff. And then we move into I like to do sometimes inner child work with some people. Like we really need to do a little more subconscious.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

That's what I would do a lot with my friend who was coaching me for a while.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

I mean, it's transformative.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

It's so transformative.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

You're really getting into the subconscious. And what's cool is, I mean, it it's kind of like you're re structuring memories in some ways, or like and so meeting some needs that are actually stuck, like because it's very encoded in there.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

And you're meeting that finally, so it actually allows those certain areas to dip to develop. So you really are switching up your brain. Like it's like a computer update, you know? So very cool. I love doing that. And then there's some other things, but I very much have to meet the client where they're at. Yeah. Some people are ready for it, some people are not ready for it. Right. So I might do more somatic type stuff to kind of start getting them a little bit more into their body and awareness there. It's it's very client-dependent. And then I think it kind of after that phase, we kind of get into like the actual application, kind of just hearing how all that's actually going in their world and like any updates and that kind of thing along the way. And along with all that, I even let them know like this is kind of like our like our trajectory. This is where we're headed. But at any point, if you want to come in here and have just a vent session, yeah, please. Yeah, I'm like, I totally get that. Like, this is not, we don't have to do this step by step, but I'm letting you know, like, this like loose plan and the the direction we're going. I also like to let people know, like, if you're looking for like transformation, it takes time and it takes consistency. You know, it takes sometimes years. Hard truth. Yeah. The hard truth. The hard truth. Because I was like, think about it, like what you want to become a bodybuilder. Right. Think of how much consistency goes into that. And honestly, how much time like that can take for the real transformation, years or a year, let's say earliest a year or two years, just so you know, like just to be in reality about this, and hopefully also to take the pressure off a little bit. Yeah. Um, but I was like, but in the meantime, you're gonna get results like when you're having that body transformation, you'll lose weight, you'll see muscle kick in, you'll notice you're making better choices. That those things happen along the way. Right. And those are the little motivators, I think, to help you keep going. Right. But I I do based on that type of work that I do, that's what I want to make sure they know is it just takes time. Because yes, we could just do solution focused stuff, and I can help you, you know, figure out how to handle one little problem with somebody. We can do that and we can knock that out probably in a few sessions. But if you're looking for like long-term, yeah, I'm noticing like I'm at a disconnect. Like, why do I know better logically, but in like I'm still having these responses physically or in my emotions, whatever, like that disconnect's happening, that's what's gonna take some time.

Why Transformation Takes Time

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Right, because it's like it's an ingrained habit. It's it's like an addiction of sense. Like we get addicted to the way that we respond to things based on how what makes us feel safe and unsafe. And it reminds me of there's this naturopath that's a family friend of ours. And whenever I first met him, uh he was like on stage giving a talk, and he was talking about like food, you know, being medicine, and how he was like the issues that you're dealing with in your body and your gut, like it's taken you what, how old are you? 20, 30, 40, 50 years to get to where you are.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

It's not gonna be one year to get back. Yeah, like it's it's it's a long-term thing, and yeah, it can take just as long, you know, to really unravel it.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah, and I think it's like at the end of it, just kind of that this is what I've learned for me, and this is what I hope to like kind of share with other people. But because I used to think that I needed to get to a certain point, but what I really came to realize is there's some like initial things that really needed to shift, and they did. And now it's more like I just know how to be with myself now for the mess that comes up because that is life, it's that's inevitable. It's a roller coaster, it's not perfect, it's gonna be messy. So it's like learning the tools to actually be like my greatest friend, like through it, and still love myself and know my worth and know my like truly and deeply. That's that is the transformation. That's everything right there.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Because there's no way, like, I I even share this. I'm like, okay, guys, if if all of if our brain was quite literally formed off of every experience, ain't no way we're getting to every single one of them. Like it's kind of like just accepting the the imperfection. You know what I mean? Like there's not that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah, yeah. Like I feel like I I've kind of trained myself to see that even those moments of like imperfection, failure, mistakes, yeah, all of the bad things are actually kind of blessings too. Yes. Because they help boost us and they they teach us things that are gonna impact our next choices. And sometimes it might make the next choice worse. But sometimes, but like eventually we I don't I don't know, like the more we work on ourselves, the more we do learn from them. And we wouldn't like I wouldn't be the person I am today if I didn't battle with all of the childhood trauma that I went through. Right. And so I see its purpose now, and I think that's an important part of it is just like not only fully being present and being there for it, but also like seeing that there's value to it.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Yes. And like it gives us more purpose when there's challenge. Right. So we actually, you know, like if we imagined a world where there was nothing like that, yeah. Whoa, what a it kind of makes Yeah, it kind of makes everything dull. And it's like okay. Like it doesn't have them. So when you know grief, then you should simultaneously then be able to really know joy because you're feeling such the contrast, right? And so it's like, and for and I can't remember, my gosh, I'm gonna butcher it, but there was some sort of like experiment that went around and they did like a mice, and I think they tried to give them like the most perfect environment, and it kind of gave them like the mice like no purpose and they like died off. I am so butchering that, I know. Yeah, but ultimately I think it's like kind of showing that message that at the end of the day we we do need we need challenge, right? It does make us appreciate more, you know, or savor things more, right? So true. And I I I'm not taking away the fact that some things I think feel heavier than they need to be because of these, like, you know, whatever it may be in your past, like I want those things to be addressed, but it's also simultaneously accepting that life is gonna always have its challenges and it's okay, like that you don't respond to everything perfectly, and you're we're always just like figuring it out, yeah, you know. But but like I said, I think the most beautiful thing is just if you can really be your friend at the end of the day and like build that resilience. Like, hey, I I have been through hard things and I can get through this. Like, this is so painful right now. I'm really glad I know how to like hold pain. Yeah. Because before I didn't, and I would try to run away from it or escape or whatever. So it's building capacity for the fullness of life, hold the pain, all the parts of life, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah, yeah. I think that's it's so powerful. I know that's that's a part of like the journey that I've been on is like allowing myself to like there. I was kind of in a similar place, like head space whenever I was younger, too. Of like, I'm pretty sure I was depressed for a majority of my childhood and I didn't know it. Totally. Totally. Um, like unraveling that and learning that and just like allowing myself, and sometimes you know, it's still is hard to like allow myself to sit and be with my feelings and my emotions and uh just experience them and let them come out. But it's so important to be able to do that because the more we run from them, the more disconnected we come from ourselves, yes, and reactive we get in life.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yes, I can't even I can't even tolerate that. I was so reactive before, and like now like I'm so connected to myself. Like, okay, I'm sorry if this is TMI, but whatever. Um, like even with my boyfriend, we had like a little conflict, and like before I would have been like super reactive about stuff, and like now, like it just will make me like cry a little bit because I'm like, I'm like, I'm sad, like I'm sad that we feel disconnected. And I'm like, who's this girl? Before I would have been like, we have to talk this out until da-da-da-da. Like we need to figure out everything, and like I'm angry or whatever, I'm like out of control, but like at least I could be so connected to myself that I'm like, you know, it's okay to have a little bit of tears that actually, yeah, like I know crying now, like obviously, I guess people can use it for manip manipulation or whatever, right? But if you're like sincerely crying, it like helps release your cortisol. So it actually is a release, right? So I'm like, even just knowing those things are so helpful for these moments, hard moments in life.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yeah, so helpful and helpful to not judge yourself for it too. Totally. Like that's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

It's like judging yourself for your your mishaps and faults and easily.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Oh, people can have a really uh harsh inner critic.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yeah. How do you like help people get out?

Mapping And Softening The Inner Critic

SPEAKER_01 37:11

I mean, I'm sure it's different between uh totally with every person, but is there any like common threads that you see? And like, is there any overarching things that you do to help with people getting out of that? Like self-judgment.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Oh, the the inner critic. Yeah, um, for sure. A lot of people have a strong inner critic. Because at the end of the day, most of us had some sort of needs not met and some dysfunction in our background. To be honest, if I'm being for so for real, I've only maybe met one client who came in and I was like, wow, I don't think you have really anything in your background, and I'm very surprised about that. Um so most people do, yeah. Just whether they want to really yeah, whether they really want to like share that or not, uh coming from getting to see behind the scenes. But so we will have either critics that it could have been like our parents, it could have been kit peers, it could have been like um teachers, whatever. But at some point these messages were set about us that we as kids usually we end up, especially if we weren't able to talk it out at all or be met in those places, we internalize it, and then it can create a shame around our own self and our identity. And then we start partnering with that like developed voice, and then it also starts to become a little bit of like a protective mechanism, kind of like I'm gonna beat you to the punch. Like I'm afraid that this person would have this kind of reaction or response or judgment or criticism or whatever about me. So I'm kind of I'm doing that for myself before you can. So I do like to maybe try to find areas in which, like, where did that critic voice get developed? You know, what could have contributed to that? Where were you not met in certain ways that maybe you needed at that time? Like, get get to know a little bit more of those inner workings. But then I also like to describe all the ways an inner critic can show up. Like, there's so many characteristics of an inner critic. There's perfection, there's shoulding, like I should do this, I shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Um I try to steer clear from that word corrected earlier.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I know, I was like, it doesn't matter when I should or something. I was like, that was really good. I don't like that word. I was sorry. I noticed it actually.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

I was like, good for her. So yeah, the shoulding thing, devaluing comparison to others, or your most perfect moments, guilt tripping, busy holic, uh you know, oh, hypochondricizing. There's so many little things that can be contributed to this inner critic that lives internally. So crazy. I know.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

It's a whole world. I know.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Maybe you can't even really see it a lot of the time. And then how do you how do you ever really know unless you like have somebody like yes, yes, I wouldn't have known. And like knowing all the legs that it had, I was like, oh my gosh. So we like I I like to have my clients like kind of get to know also how it can show up, and then I like I like them to be their own little observer and data gatherer and like see without judgment, pick up on how it's showing up. We'll pick maybe their like top three to five ways the critic shows up and then go recognize it out in the world, you know. That's like the real big thing with therapy. You gotta take everything from the session, do the work, yeah, outside of the session. Because there's some people who do not do that. Yeah, you're not gonna see big changes there. But the people who do, I see crazy amazing changes. But so yeah, they just kind of data gather. And then I like them to get connected. The next step would be a little connected to their body, so that would be like the raw emotions kicking in. Like, is there a lot of fear around that? Is there a lot of pain around that? Are you actually carrying a lot of anger? You know, so that we can just kind of see maybe some areas that also need to be released, and then ultimately replacing it with a voice that's a lot more compassionate. So we're trying to, you know, kind of deaden off that neural pathway that's so conditioned to this criticism, this inner critic, and all the ways it can show up and create a new neural pathway that becomes a lot more automatic. That inner critic will probably always a little bit be there in the background, you know. Um, doesn't just like fully go away. Um, but certainly this compassionate voice can be a lot more dominant. So yeah, I I I would say a lot of people have an inner critic to some degree, just some people's inner critic. It's just part of being human. Yeah, some people's is just very strong. Right. Um, and that usually came like with a lot of criticism in their background and a lot of unmet needs. So super varying, but most people I would say have at least a degree of that inner critic. That makes sense. I know I battle with one.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Oh, yeah, yeah, same. I've gotten a lot better. Affirmations. Yeah, affirmations have helped me so much. I would I used to, I don't really anymore, but used to write them on my bathroom mirror. Yeah, you can see in my room I've got like vision boards and those I use as affirmations. Oh, yes. Those have been from over the last like 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, I know I noticed that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, some of them are Phil's too, you can tell.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

More like manly ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah. But yeah, I've uh because I yeah, I feel like yeah, my inner critic is is loud and I've done a lot of work to like calm it down. And it's funny, I feel like I a lot of my friends, especially like new friends, when they start to get to know me, I can tend to be a very positive person. And I think some people thinks think it can be like a level of toxic positivity. Yeah. But it's like to me, it's not. I've just I've like literally rewired my mind to find a positive in everything. Yeah, because I like feel like there there is light to everything, and it's it's like I'm I want to help other people see that too, you know. And um, I remember having a conversation recently, recently with a friend like that, and it just made me think of that, like how I don't I don't try to make it sound overly like overly positive when I'm talking to people, but it's uh yeah, I think it's just something that you can really train your mind to do. It just takes a long time I it's taken me 10, 15 years to get to where I am with it.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

It's a lot of training. Yeah, it's because you're you're really trying to literally create a new neural pathway. I mean, that's like some brain restructuring that's actually happening. And so it is a lot consistently, you know, and like I think toxic positivity is if you aren't able to see the other side. Right. You know, if you're not able to see, like, okay, yes, we are gonna see the positive, however, it's also okay for me to experience pain in this moment and be sad, like. You know, if that was negated, that's to me toxic posity. But being able to see the positive in in any situation, I think is a great thing to have. You know, I don't think that that is toxic positive toxic positivity.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Agreed, yeah. And I think sometimes it can be hard if somebody's not ready to be at that level themselves because they haven't processing. Sometimes they can totally experience that too. And that's, I mean, that's okay too. It's for sure. Like where people are. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

And some people just like they're like, I really don't, and and it's fair. Like in sometimes in certain moments, you just want somebody to sit with you in like the heart of it. Right. And then like once that's you know, validated and like just like sat with, like it's okay, it's safe that it exists, right? Then you can get into that part of like breaking a positive spin. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Yeah. That makes me think of like a little personal, like me and my husband sometimes when we're like going through stuff.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

And or if like I'm going through something in my personal life and I'm just like venting and crying and letting it all out. Sometimes like we both can be the like uplifter type of person, and he'll be like, Your your mind is doing this to you. Like I know, okay. Like, sometimes I just need you to listen. Exactly. Give me some space. Just like don't say anything. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Just say with me and tell me it sucks.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

That's important too.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

It is, it really is, though. That's like kind of reeling it back to when I said, like, I let myself cry or whatever. Like, I just need to let myself cry. Don't fix it. You don't have to like feel bad if that I'm crying. Like, that's not it. I just, I just needed to cry. Right. You know, like it's a it's a release. It's different if you're like nursing it, rehearsing it, and just sitting all day and whatever, right? Right. But yeah, we need that just to like, it's okay that this part also exists, and we don't have to run from it. We don't have to push through it. We can actually, it's safe to feel this. Right. Because we know that there's another side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

We're gonna get through it. And sometimes that other side, I feel like magically like reveals itself to you after you let it all come out.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Exactly, because you're actually regulating your nervous system so you actually can think clearer on the other side of it. But once that part's met that it's validated, it's safe to exist, yeah, it calms it all down. And that's why it's usually it just pops right up on the other side. It's like, you know what? Actually, this is fine. Like, yeah, I'm gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yeah, I love

Complex PTSD Versus PTSD

SPEAKER_01 46:33

that. So you're you have different things that you specialize. You were kind of talking about that earlier.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

You specialize in like trauma. I was looking at your website and stuff. Complex PTSD, uh stepping out of abusive patterns. I'm kind of actually really curious about the complex PTSD kind of stuff. Yeah. That's something that I feel like I've been like processing through uh in my own life. I've that's amazing. Got PTSD. I mean, I've been doing it like on my own a lot lately, but it's still like that's okay. Yeah, it's still uh yeah, I just I've been noticing more that I have like PTSD in certain areas in my life and trying to work through them. So I'm very curious of just like what I'm curious what is the difference of complex PTSD versus just PTSD.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Yeah, a PTSD has a little bit more of like um you witnessed like uh witness or experienced yourself like a very significant event. Like it could have it could have been some like a tornado or it could have been combat, um murder, uh, you know. The the list goes on and on. I think we can fill in there, but so that's more of um a PTSD kind of situation. Complex PTSD is long-term. It's I kind of like to call it like the death by a thousand cuts. Um it like it can be as little as um like an emotional neglect, right? Like let's say as a kid your parent was never, you could never go to them with any of your emotions, and let's say it was always shut down or you're too much, or whatever that is. It's these little cuts over time, and you don't get to actually fully develop this like sense of self as a person. Um, you don't get to build necessarily this like appropriate resilience, and so you can see it show up, especially I feel like nowadays. You like our as we become like older, um, we see it show up in like our relationships, our sense of self. It could feel like we're behind, like everyone else has things figured out, but we don't. And yeah, it's it it almost to me, it has more of an imprint to your person, like to your identity, your sense of self, as opposed to PTSD, that's just a little bit more of that lived experience in the body that's so intense. You can have that in complex PTSD as well, like there's like emotional flashbacks almost, like where let's say, and I'm totally making this up, but like you were in an argument with your partner, and it's it feels like another time of in your life, but it's like so intense, and sometimes those level of flashbacks can I mean some kind sometimes can be debilitating for people, and then sometimes it's not as debilitating, but so different, but one's a lot more of the the the long-term effects, yeah, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

100%, yeah. I can I can definitely understand that. I'm curious, like how because I know that I know from my own experience, I feel like a complex PTSD is more of like some things that I've been battling. Like what is like how do you in your practice and in your experience working with people, how do you even begin to help somebody move through that?

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Yeah, it's that's a it's a personal thing, probably. It's a journey. I I that's like what has been my big shift because it's I found out I have complex PTSD, and I was like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. Yeah. Um so really what I what I like to do, and it's a bunch of different little pathways to get there. I'm really gonna take in account where the client's at and what they're ready for, but ultimately it's again kind of what I was sharing, where we're gonna try to understand their brain, certain needs that weren't met, the impact of these things in their world, catching that inner critic. A lot of times the inner critic really, I mean, usually as a part of the complex PTSD. Um catching that, developing a voice of self-compassion. I really love doing inner child work with complex PTSD because of that, because it's like coming in as that loving parent that you really needed as a kid in certain ways. And that's like not to say that the parents did so awful. You know, they can have showed up in real, like my mom was amazing. Yeah. But she did when I got into reality, there was an impact on certain things that that that did hurt me deeply, and I didn't realize. But, anyways, so it's a lot of that process, and I'm trying to also help them build a strong sense of self, and and it all like to me, it's kind of that very connected in place. Like instead of being so in your logic and reason as an adult and maybe explaining away the things of the past, that tends to keep people up here and they're having a hard time connecting to themselves and what they're actually feeling. Like, like, for instance, honestly, even in my complex PTT PTSD, I didn't know what emotions I was actually feeling a lot of times. I would be like, Yeah, I'm angry, but if I actually connected to my body, I wasn't. I was like, I was scared, but I didn't know that until I walked this all out. So it again, different levels of how it shows up for people, but I want them to even understand how you can experience that in your body. Learn to create safety in your body, a capacity in your body to handle these emotions, not just move through them so quickly. Um, so it's a lot of it it ultimately we are wanting to integrate everything together, and that's kind of the the process. Again, I know it's I know it kind of sounds maybe a little up in the air in some ways and how I'm explaining it, but well, it's I I get it.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

It's because it's hard because literally everybody's on their own path. And so it's it's gonna be different for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Yeah, yes, exactly. So it's got that like loose structure again to it, but really that is the big thing is just like uh developing that strong sense of self, creating more safety and capacity in the body, and like also with that is gonna be a lot more like self-trust, and it allows a lot of these areas internally, it's like a subconscious kind of reprogramming, um, just allowing your brain to basically get its update, you know, and you feel a lot more integrated and aligned in yourself because a lot of people feel like they know better, but they just can't get there, yeah. And so we're trying to get that all connected, yeah. So, yeah.

Simple Grounding Tool That Actually Works

SPEAKER_01 53:12

If there was like one general tool that you could share with my audience that like can help somebody reconnect with themselves in like a moment like that, where maybe they're like experiencing something from PTSD that's like bringing stuff up in them. Like, what what would you yeah?

SPEAKER_03 53:35

That's that's uh which I know everyone's so different. I know. Um I would say uh just like slowing it down for a second, like using that as a cue to slow it down, take a breath, like the four seconds in through your nose, six seconds out through your mouth, diaphragmatic breathing, so making sure it's through your belly. Um, but just trying to slow it down in that moment, observe yourself, like try to, and I know that that's so hard for some people, so I'm like trying to say this very gently. But if that could be like the one thing that at least to start with, but honestly, if like for anybody who is listening, like if these things felt so deeply resonating, I really would suggest going to find somebody or at least starting the process of reading up on it so that if you're looking for a therapist, you can maybe bring up some things that are important and see if it fits. Have something, yeah. But it's so there's also something so needed and necessary for the that part to be like it's kind of like a co-regulating, like having a person in that space with you and not doing it alone is actually I think a huge part of the healing. Right. Um and so I know like maybe that's not always it's hard. I I know the yeah hard part of finding somebody, but that would be like really good. I and um I really know too if anyone feels like for um uh complex PTSD, there's like coherence therapy um that's like becoming increasingly popular, and I know I've seen people um it's like some Instagram accounts with that, but you can definitely start free things, you can stuff these days, yes, and like at bare minimum, even reaching out to even those accounts and just seeing if they have anything that they suggest or someone they can pinpoint and stuff like that. Um, but I I would highly suggest that, but at least in the moment, like for when things kick in, you know, try to just slow it down. Yeah, slow down, breathe, take a beat. Yeah, maybe you need to literally take a nap, maybe you need to walk outside, maybe you need a snack.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

You know, that's funny because whenever I first started working with my friend, she calls herself a love coach and she she's like a life coach, yeah. Um, but for self-love. Beautiful. And I always told her I was like, if I ever need somebody, I'm going to you. And then I got to a point where I needed someone and I went to her. And the first thing she like some kind of assigned me, I guess, to like help myself with what I was going through. She's like, You need your afternoon naps, girl. Like 20 minutes at least. Yeah. Every afternoon. Take a nap. And I will tell you it like changed my life.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

I know it's it's so true because it's also paying attention to what you actually need. It kind of takes us to some basics, you know. Like sometimes we do forget, hey, I need a rest, or I really need to sleep it off for a second, or I need a snack. Like I'm kind of hangry. Like it's the basics that we can tend to overlook, especially as adults, especially as like maybe super, which I see a lot of times with complex PTSD, people who are very hardworking and filling up their time and like high achieving and da-da-da. Like, yeah. Even thinking of those basics is actually difficult. And making space for those basics is difficult. Right. So sounds simple, but it can help make a big shift. Right. So I'm like, yes, I get that 20-minute nap daily.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

I don't actually meet them anymore, but I do go on like walks and like sit on my back porch and things like that that help give me that space.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

And just to that point, too, real quick, that you even said like I don't even fully need them anymore. That's also the beauty of it. Like, we keep getting to meet ourselves over and over. Like, we're not the same, I guess if we really want to be self-aware and keep doing the work. We are constantly changing. Yeah. So what might be great and needed in a certain season can shift to the next. Right. You know, like right now, my thing is walking. I don't know if that will ever change or not, but it's so great for right now. Like, especially in the heat of the summer, it'll change. I know. I was like, I'll be going inside the gym for that. But that's so great for like I'm an overthinker. Like, oh my god, sometimes I'll be in a spiral in my thoughts. And I actually tried out those color walks. Have you heard of those?

unknown 57:55

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

At first I was so judgy. I was like, oh my god, that's so stupid. And I did it, it worked. So you like you're about to go on a walk, you pick a color, and then you're just looking for that color on your walk. The purpose of it is to help get your brain out of its like overdrive. That makes sense. So you're present, you're looking for like this one color all around you, but it also simplifies your thoughts. So it helps get you out of that spin out into like a more simplified state. And I noticed it was so funny because I was like, I picked the color red, and so I was just like on my walk. I did not think that this would work for me, but it totally did. And then I was like having the most simple thoughts, like, oh my god, wow, a red door. And I was like, red bird feeder, and I was like, another red bird feeder. I was like, huh. I wonder if there's a reason why bird feeders tend to be red. And then I was like, and then I noticed I had that thought and I was like, oh wait, this is so great. I needed something so simple because my brain was freaking out. So, anyways, another one to kind of like throw in.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yeah. I love that. That I mean, that makes so much sense. It reminds me of a tool, I don't even remember who told me or where I found it from, maybe researching online of like helping with anxiety because I've had a couple of anxiety attacks in my adulthood. Yes. And I my worst one I ever had uh was at night, and I remember going downstairs and remembering that like one of the big tools I uh found was that like like look at all the different things in your surroundings and describe it to yourself. Like that's a plant, it's green, it's got long leaves, and like just telling yourself because it like takes you out of that mental spiral.

SPEAKER_03 59:32

Exactly, that's exactly right. And that kind of goes with that, like uh the five, four, three, two, one, five things you hear or see, four things you can touch, three. It's practicing your sentence, uh your senses, it's getting grounded, it's being in the present moment, does shift the part of your brain that you're using.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

It's crazy how well it works. It's crazy. Like we don't realize how deeply we are stuck in our thoughts until we have tools like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:57

Yeah, we can go and experience it. I know that's like my place. I have to be very if I'm like deeply in thought, I'm like, Jenna, you've been in there too long. You've got to like get back to simplicity. Like simplicity, that that's why it's like the snack or a nap, or like keeping it basic. Because another, honestly, another thing you can see in complex PTSD and stuff like that, um, is being super in your brain, even to sometimes a very dissociated place. Like, I'm not even connected to me, my physical body really anymore. Yeah, I had that struggle for the longest time. So those type of tools like are everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

So, yeah, yeah, they that makes sense. I've never thought about doing something like that, not in an anxiety attack. It's just like just yeah, it's like, oh, I'll have to try that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

Yeah, we think of it sometimes in the extremes, right? Like it's an anxiety attack level, but it could just be like when your brain's just a little extra going off, and you just need to be a little bit more back into present. You just want that part to just chill. Yeah, you know, you're changing kind of the I think you your your state. Yeah, you know, maybe we're we've been used to being in a certain state where it's a little bit we're used to the overwhelm. Right. So that's why again, we're kind of shifting capacity and where we really sit at.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For that reason, I love the like tool that you shared of just like taking a moment and slowing down for anyone like stuck in their stuff, because I feel like that that is. I mean, I'm I'm not a therapist and I don't work with people, but I feel like just knowing this day and age and the society here, like we're all we've all been kind of brainwashed to just like be so good, be pushers and constantly be working and putting ourselves out there. And it's we don't we were never taught to slow down. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

And and if anything, we're being taught to speed up even more. And so that's why you I mean you gotta be the one to figure it out and manage it yourself. Like no one else can do this for you, you know? Like we have to be the one to recognize this and do something about

Pausing Conflict Without Breaking Trust

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

it. Um, I will say, just to add, you know, for anyone who's listening, I do notice like especially that pause, that's good for like all times. But what I where I really notice that being important is actually like if you're in relationship. Oh my gosh, with so many, because I see couples too. If I could teach that to be one tool for people, is actually taking pauses and not trying to hash it all out because our nervous systems can be just so off and everything's so heightened. We're it shuts down a part of our brain that can think clearly, like we're not thinking clearly anymore, it's not productive. Right. So it's like, yeah, take a take a pause, but that's like freaking hard for some people.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

It is really hard. I mean it was. Yes, and then like one of us has to go and he drives off and we have a moment, then he calls me, he's like, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

I'm sorry. He's like, Can I come home?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

Let me back in. Yeah, I I was like, oh, I remember my therapist telling me I needed to like pause and stuff, and I thought it was the worst thing. I was like, no, because I want to just hash it out. Like, I want to have, I want to feel connected. Like it freaked me out to not talk it all out, but it was like the best thing ever for me. And it actually stretched me in all these other areas where I'm like, oh, like actually slowing it down is actually really good because I can think clearer. I can then communicate what's important, or I can even see myself a little bit more clearly, you know. So I just I just know that that happens to be a lot of people's like easy heightened points. I just want to bring that up. Little caveat to it though, if you do take a pause, you have to give the rules real quick. You have to be able to say, like, it's like that compliment sandwich, like, I love you, I appreciate you, I need to go regulate, and I need, and you say how much time, like 20 minutes, an hour, whatever, and then you have to be the one to come back. If you're the one who called the pause, you have to come back. I love that at that time. So it doesn't possibly show an abandonment or no follow-through. It doesn't leave the other person in this, like, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

I've not like heard that discussion before.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

Need it needed and necessary for sure. Because otherwise, some people are just like, Well, what is going on over there? And are you gonna come back? And it like actually breaks trust. Right. So it's kind of like taking the pause but responsibly and still in like a connected place.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

It makes sense.

The Alpha Method For Hard Talks

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

It makes me think of this like communication method that my friend Amanda shared. I keep talking about her, I love her. Oh, that's it. She's got so much, so much wisdom. Um, but she learned from another coach this communication method. I was thinking you you would probably love it, and it has worked wonders for me in my life. I've mentioned it on my podcast before. It's called the Alpha Method. Uh-huh. I think Melanie Lair is the one that created it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

But um, it's called the Alpha Method, and it's an acronym. And the first A stands for appreciation, like starting, and this is like if you need to like type out a letter to read to somebody, or like if you're trying to have a hard conversation and you say you appreciate, you say what you appreciate about them. The L is you say what your long-term vision with them is. That's great. Whether it be letting go of them or you know, wanting a long-term relationship. Yeah. Um, the P is then stating what the problem is and what needs to be brought up. Yeah. And then the H is that you want happiness for go for both, regardless of what happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

This is yeah, this is what I want to have overall.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

And then the last A is um ask. You ask for what you need.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

And yeah, I like that. It has helped me so much. That's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

Yeah, because I think it helps because it's like hitting on certain things. It's it's kind of like piercing through areas that like a person might have like. I mean, we're not intentionally trying to do it, but unintentionally having guards up in certain areas. Like, is this does this person actually care about how I feel in this moment? Are they gonna see me? Are they gonna hear me? Are they gonna understand it? So communicating. That way, I think, can pierce through a lot of those potential walls that can go up real quick when we know we're about to be in some sort of conflict of some kind. Right. So I'm like, I I totally can see that working well.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

A big part of why it works and why what you said reminded me of it is that appreciation, starting out with that appreciation, because it helps people feel loved and not feel attacked.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Yes. Yeah, and not used to be clear, not used as a way to manipulate, but especially if your true purpose is to be connected. Like I really am appreciative. This is my heart. Yeah, say what you really are appreciative, not just like I gotta do this so that you have a good response to me so I get what I want, you know. Like I know, like in dangerous hands. But but like I I think us learning how to actually, you know, structure it in a way that it's like I really am trying to let you know where my heart really is. Yeah. You know, this is really where I'm coming from and my stance, and you know, I think that that's a great little tool.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

I love it. And I wanted to flip back to one of the uh what we were talking to about the slowing

Slowing Down To Get More Done

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

down thing. One thing that I've noticed with um with like taking those moments to slow down whenever I need it, uh, as not necessarily like in a communication form, but just like self from being a busy, I'm like a busy go-go getter, like always, always working. That's my my toxic trait is I yeah, I distract myself with work. But um in slowing down, like with learning that journey in myself, I like the reason that I didn't want to slow down was because I had so much to do, and I'm like, how am I gonna have the time to do it? And one of the biggest lessons I've learned from starting to slow down more is that I actually get it all done in more whenever I do take those moments to slow down because it's not coming from a place of stress anymore. Yes. It's coming from a place of like wholeness, yes, where I can have a bigger capacity to handle things more easily. Yes. And I feel like that's I just wanted to like mention that. I think that's great. I love that. I feel like that was a huge lesson, and it's one that's like so hard to understand. And if somebody would have told me that before I really started taking the moments to slow down, I would have been like, No. Like, how that doesn't even make sense. How to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:25

Exactly. That's kind of that's especially why, again, kind of threading it back, why I think you need to work with somebody ultimately at the end of the day, is because you do, you can a lot, there's so much data out there, like and information of how to do all these things. Even us talking, right, of these tools, great, right? And you can apply some of it, but you definitely need somebody who's gonna like really get into the inner workings of your world, help you help it really make sense on an experiential level and walking you through it. Yeah, because yeah, you can understand it to some degree, but it's almost like you don't fully understand it internally yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Right. And sometimes you can't even see some of the patterns and habits that you have. And sometimes, like I remember working with the girl that I worked with that we would be in a session and talking through things, and she's like, Well, I'm seeing this happen. And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

Yeah, like how it's like, yeah, and I'm like, Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

That's like one of my favorite things. That's why I like I like love it because I'll like look at body language, I'm looking at facial expressions. I'm even looking like I can tell when a person's even like a little dissociated and stuff, and like I'll be like, You're dissociating right now, and they're like, What? Yeah, but then they get to the more that happens, they get to the more awareness they have around it. I was a chronic dissociator, and I my therapist had to be like, You're dissociating, and I'm like, Oh my god, am I? But then I started realizing it and I'm like, wow, that's so helpful. And I needed this person who was committed, who who's knowledgeable, but like committed to see all these things in me and help bring that to the surface and help me connect those dots. Yeah. And because I had all this knowledge, I just didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know how to actually apply it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Right. So yeah.

How To Find Jenna And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Well, thank you so much for coming today. Thanks for having me. I'm so grateful, and it's so fun to reconnect with a new Jenna that I didn't know before and me being a new me. I know that you didn't know yeah. So, where can people find you if they're interested in your work or so funny, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

Because I was like, what is my Instagram scandal? I think it's just Jenna Brooks, maybe. Is it Jenna?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:32

I feel like there might be an underscore in it because I was doing research on the Jenna underscore brooks.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

I think so, yeah. Okay, yeah. So Jenna underscore brooks, thank you. Um on Instagram. Um, and then I'll put it in the show notes too. That's perfect. Yeah, and then I think it's Jenna Brooks Therapy.com or co if I'm not mistaken for my website. But obviously in the notes, people can find it. And feel free to reach out. But even if it's like not like of course, I have openings from one-on-one anywhere, like you don't have to be in Texas. But um, even if you have questions or like certain reading materials you're interested, just anything. Like, I love this. Like, I I I want to help a fellow person out. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

I still have a little course on anxiety. Uh yeah, I do. Or like a little document. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

It's it's kind of like a kind of quick, easy intro if people are interested in that. Um, I probably am gonna have more stuff in the future, yeah, to be honest. Cool. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

Yeah, well, thanks so much for coming. It's been such a lovely conversation. It's been great having you. So I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you guys for tuning into the Authentic Heart Podcast. I'm Amber Westerman, your host, and I'm so grateful for you to be here. If you really like what you heard, check out Dina, leave a review on the podcast. Come find me on social, connect more.